(Tough Questions Kids Ask #3), "Blessed are the Meek" Sunday School Lesson, Lesson: God made YOU special! Second, how can it be said that Saul only reigned two years, when clearly he reigned for many more (including the whole time David was in exile)? They refer to 1 Samuel 18:1-3 which says Jonathan had agreed to give David a sign that would indicate if David was safe or in danger by how Jonathan shot his arrows. We must remember that love between a husband and wife is multifaceted. . Martin Anstey points to a better interpretation, but misses the mark. R. Bergen author of 1, 2 Samuel in the New American Commentaryseries makes this comment about Jonathans gift to David, This was understandable because David and Jonathan had much in common; they were both courageous and capable young warriors who possessed profound faith in the Lord. Read 1 Samuel 18:8-9 to see Sauls response. There was between them a deep emotional bond that left David grief-stricken when Jonathan died. If you are a believer the best friend you will ever have is Jesus. Assumptions and inferences History of Christianity and homosexuality, Corbett, John. But neither term occurs in 1 Samuel or 2 Samuel. Homosociality is not seen as being part of the sexual taboo in the biblical world. The difficulty arises because the passage in which Sauls age at accession, and regnal length, has been damaged at an early stage of transmission of the text. Jonathan is about 55 when his son Mephibosheth is born. [14] Similarly, Roger of Hoveden, a twelfth-century chronicler, deliberately drew comparisons in his description of "The King of France (Philip II Augustus) [who] loved him (Richard the Lionheart) as his own soul. transitory, homosexuality, deployed by the redactors as a textual means to assert David's rights against Jonathan's: the latter willingly alienated his princely status by bowing down (1 Samuel 20:41), sexually speaking, to the former. A friendship of two people that centers around a love for God will be strong and will last a long time. Gagnon[33] and the Assyriologist Markus Zehnder[34] and is consistent with commonly held theological views condemning same sex relations. 1 Samuel 14:49 Sauls family Bible Lesson: David and King Sauls son, Jonathan, became strong friends. This reign-length also fits with Josephus information, though not of course with Pauls as recorded in Acts. Why did he tempt Adam? That means no permission is needed as long as you credit this Ministry-To-Children.com in the final work. How did David do whatever Saul asked him to do? During this time Samuel dies, and David marries Ahinoam and Abigail, Michal having been given in marriage to Paltiel. Ackerman explains this as a case of liminal, viz. Proverbs 17:17 tells us that there are friends whose love is better than that of a brother. Now why did Jonathan do this? He is depicted as a skilled warrior, poet, and musician and is part of the tribe of Judah and the son of Jesse of Bethlehem. He lived to anoint David as well, but died before the battle of Gilboa. No matter what happened they would always be friends. So David went out wherever Saul sent him, and prospered; and Saul set him over the men of war. He was born over a decade after the start of Sauls reign. Ronald F. Youngblood. Acts 13:21, recording a speech by Paul [6] David learns of Saul and Jonathan's death and chants a lament,[5] which in part says: Saul and Jonathan, beloved and pleasant in their life, And in their death they were not parted; They were swifter than eagles, They were stronger than lions How have the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! [33] The strong emotive language expressed by David towards Jonathan is also argued to be akin to that of platonic expressions in more expressive or pre-urban cultures. 7. pp. The first half of the verse, Anstey maintains, should not be translated "A son of one year was Saul when he began reigning," but rather "A son of one year was Saul in his reigning." It is difficult to see how this could be realistically reduced to 30 years to fit the Septuagint reading of 1 Samuel 13:1, though a few years reduction could be made. [50], At his 1895 trial, Oscar Wilde cited the example of David and Jonathan in support of "The love that dare not speak its name": "Such a great affection of an elder for a younger man as there was between David and Jonathan, such as Plato made the very basis of his philosophy, and such as you find in the sonnets of Michelangelo and Shakespeare. Even though Jonathan was a mighty prince and nearing 50 years of age, while David was a humble shepherd and likely not yet 20 years old, those differences between them did Site design and hosting by . Saul; accession of Saul. It occurs 210 times in the Old Testament. 1. It should be noted that she refers to him as Beloved or Lover.. 1 Samuel 17:33 contrasts David "you are only a boy" with Goliath "he has been a fighting man from his youth", and the same Hebrew word naar is used in both phrases. Thus says the LORD, Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man boast of his might, let not a rich man boast of his riches; but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me . ^SC)/c1LBHToAnPm.L.op (s8[woN'kyt#} ,8+>c#@In}I2^VPuN j">]7 f ({f1F&Ecr'!n-PJ{Q{XB@hNi 'D8NI2TaHQCt[Y@:/.YfsRo;i` )@(g3!I#u3\&eG RCNDtVxKx ?01e?w0] p|@ 335ju?13>BMyDZB7?_k)_x2EPUr :Dn4b j-h`w m l9Bw5FTRHH=p4l!enLC!S 'W 1g q, .b2gX @7-O o` eD@b8HB& vS*ujYbp[|^2,/@RQ04q8$l\8"/Th]sBX[]D Aw w~EPA`'2Zl$wuXD>QMZce9iXG7;KiTqC:+`#,L|%3].@7[/@A M`3$NDP,Fz[i@YN]NEuQH\K]g,]tXj -lX&_&`G@&$0NKNzIu3. Many modern translations insert forty for the second figure, following Acts 13:21. Who is a believers friend? Song of Solomon 4:16 (NASB), A more accurate translation would be Lover. He is a sexual lover involved in foreplay in verse 10 and sexual intercourse in verse 16. The basic Old Testament information on which this study is based is as follows: Jonathan was a prince and would be the next king after his father Saul. What aspects about David do you think Jonathan saw that were similar to his own life? "The Significance of the Verb Love in the David-Jonathan Narratives in 1 Samuel" by, This page was last edited on 28 February 2023, at 12:19. The fact that Jonathan gave David the garb and armaments originally reserved for the heir to Sauls throne clearly possesses symbolic meaning and thematic significance.[3]. Your love to me was more wonderful than the love of women. This lengthy explanation of dod reveals that Davids statement, Your love to me was more wonderful than the love of women, is not a reference to sexual activity between David and Jonathan. Here are two articles I found on the internet at http://www.oldtestamentstudies.net/judges/reignlengthsaul.asp?item=11&variant=0 and The grammatical and social difficulties are pointed out in respect to 1 Samuel 18:21,[48] as well as the marked difference in the Bible between sensual kissing (as in Song of Songs) and the social kiss of Near Eastern cultures, whether in greeting, or as expression of deep affection between friends and family (as found throughout the Old and New Testaments). Target Time Frame: 60 minutes David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned for forty years. [39] (This event, however, is never described in the Bible, and this particular interpretation has been disputed by Diana V. Edelman, who remarked that, "Such a presumption would require David to have run off with the queen mother while Saul was still on the throne, which seems unlikely."[40]). David's lament (the Song of the Bow) for Saul and Jonathan. Did animals eat meat before the fall? First, how could Saul become king when he was one year old, and especially since he obviously was much older? (Allow responses. And the fragrance of your oils 8 0 obj Besides, Saul must have been older than thirty at this time because he had a grown son, Jonathan, who was old enough to serve in the army with him. Its not you, its us. Sometimes the length of a kings reign will be given in terms of something other than his literal rule over the nation. That is why the NASB translates dod as Beloved., Awake, O north wind, David came up with an idea to see if Saul was still trying to kill him. Web1 Samuel 20:15, 1224, 27, 3142 Jonathan warns David of Sauls intent. Using a board or poster paper draw an outline of a person and allow students to write phrases that describe a good friend. Jonathan dies at around age 60. Sauls sons were Jonathan, Ishvi and Malki-Shua. This Jonathan was a noble man of true character, faith, and integrity. David and Jonathan loved each other, and they both loved and respected the Lord. Jonathan did not befriend David simply because the latter won against Goliath. What do you think about 1 Samuel 13:1? This intimate relationship was sealed before God. Then Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Was King David gay? Thus I wanted to get your thoughts on this passage. Perhaps the age difference is what will make all the difference this time around. . Since his sons were old enough (though not moral enough) to be judges themselves at this time, they must be presumed to be around 30, and Samuel at least 50 years old. Samuel would be around 68. There may be times when you dont feel like you have any friends. This interpretation does full justice to the grammar of 1 Samuel 13:1a as well as to its context. But was Jonathan gay? [35], The removal of the robe is seen as a ceremonial act following the precedent of Aaron, of whom God commanded, "And strip Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son",[36] in transference of the office of the former upon the latter. As David proved himself faithful as court musician and armor bearer, he was soon elevated to a prominent position of leadership in the military (18:5).[1]. These two men were becoming fast friends. Then, taking Acts 13:21 into account, the NIV assumes that a number had dropped out of the second half of 1 Samuel 13:1, so that it should read, "and 42 years he reigned over Israel." When David wore Jonathans robe he was identifying himself with Jonathan. He would not go to eat at Sauls New Moon feast. Mephibosheth five years old 2 Sam. <> Davids enemies would be Jonathans enemies and Jonathans enemies would be Davids. And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself ( 1 Samuel 18:1-3 ). All who put their faith in Jesus as Savior take off their filthy rags and put on His robe of righteousness. God had given David a true friend in Jonathan. You [David] are not able to go out against [Goliath] and fight him: you are only a boy, and he has been a fighting man from his youth. Ish-bosheth could be nearly 40 when he took the throne (depending how long after Jonathan he was born), fitting with 2 Samuel 2. From the Medieval period through to modern scholarship, the relationship between the two men has been referenced as a strongly personal and intimate one with homoerotic undertones, akin to the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus in Homer's Odyssey and other famous homoerotic relationships. There is more than mere homosociality in the dealings of David and Jonathan, as asserted by two 21st century studies: the biblical scholar Susan Ackerman,[26] and the Orientalist Jean-Fabrice Nardelli. What makes a person a good friend? It is true that the phrase translated "when he began reigning," is literally in Hebrew "in his reigning," but this is the phrase used everywhere else in the Old Testament to denote the beginning of a mans reign (2 Samuel 2:10; 5:4; 1 Kings 14:21; etc.) The feeling is expressed before the men exchanged a single word in an interaction that has been The relationship between David and Jonathan has also been compared more explicitly to other homoerotic relationships in Near Eastern literature, including by Cyrus H. Gordon, who noted the instance in the Book of Jashar, excerpted in Samuel 2 (1:26), in which David "proclaims that Jonathan's love was sweeter to him than the love of a women", as being similar to both Achilles' comparison of Patroclus to a girl and Gilgamesh's love for Enkidu "as a woman". His wifes name was Ahinoam. Mephibosheth five years old when Saul and How much better is your love than wine, Saul took him that day and did not let him return to his fathers house. When a person enters into the New Covenant through faith in the Lord Jesus something similar takes place. He became so popular that Saul drove him out into exile, probably at the age of 23 or so. "W`*`hMaUby,q\'E-}$3wme/rPH"`i.Z8 X7@?r1 UsTvp c]M4Y&;Pcq[ Saul is not a man of his word and doesnt keep his promises. Faith in God, warrior, etc.). In the Bible, Jonathan is the eldest son of King Saul of Israel. And when Saul had reigned two years. Jonathan had a son He was five years old when the news about Saul and Jonathan came from Jezreel His name was Mephibosheth. We are not told the age of Jonathan, but we can figure it out approximately. Here are the relevant facts: David reigned in Hebron for 7.5 years ( 2 Sam 5:4-5 ), beginning from the time Saul and Jonathan died. Sauls youngest son, Ishbosheth, reigned for the last two of those years, and died at age 42 ( 2 Samuel 2:10 ). Who is a believers friend? It is possible that Pauls intention was to say that David (who he goes on to mention immediately after) reigned for forty years, and that the clause has become misplaced from one sentence to the other. On the outside, they were as different as different (Use the board or poster paper and write down students responses) Thus, Saul was said to be in the company of the prophets, "and who is their father?" Jonathan and David were approximately the same age the closeness of their friendship does not preclude widely differing ages but renders it less likely. Please use our childrens ministry curriculum and Sunday School material for any purpose that brings honor to Jesus. These verses reveal that David was no longer safe as Saul was planning to put him to death. Jesus is the mighty friend of sinners. Jonathan and David made a covenant, because Jonathan loved him as his very self. Unlike Jonathan (he did not put on Davids shepherd clothes), Jesus put on our filthy rags (sin) when He was nailed on the cross. If you have good friends in this life they are gifts from God. Jonathan and David had a true friendship that was bound by their faith in God. Bible overwhelmingly refers to homosexuality as a sin. So, then, first of all, what does it mean that Saul was only one year old when he began to reign? Jonathans choice to be Davids friend revealed Godly character traits. WebJonathan, in the Old Testament (I and II Samuel), eldest son of King Saul; his intrepidity and fidelity to his friend, the future king David, make him one of the most admired figures in the Bible. WebEven though Jonathan was a mighty prince and nearing 50 years of age, while David was a humble shepherd and likely not yet 20 years old, those differences between them (Jesus gives believers His robe of righteousness), Why was Saul angry with David? Jonathan loved David: give someone else a hug. ." 2 Samuel 1:25-27 (NASB). Some Logical Conclusions All the above is stated for the Throughout Scripture heterosexual and homosexual physical acts are referred to as to know. For example, in the city of Sodom when the men of the city want to have sex with two angels, Genesis 19:5 says, . [49], Orly Keren additionally posits that the relationship between Jonathan and David was not without enlightened self-interest on both sides: Jonathan in obtaining guarantees for his own future and that of his family, and David in creating and maintaining a public image. Which is the true religion: Christianity, Islam or Zoroastrianism, and why? Verse 16 refers to a covenantal relationship that Jonathan made with David. In other words this ritual symbolized a clear commitment that each covenant partner would defend and avenge the other partner. (All the people and Sauls officers) Conversely, a reign-length for Saul of more than 30 years suffers from opposite problems. The We believe that children and parents benefit from a strong Christian education program in the church. Observations on the Relationship Between David and Jonathan and the Debate on Homosexuality, Markus Zehnder, Observations on the Relationship between David and Jonathan and the Debate on Homosexuality, Westminster Theological Journal 69.1 [2007]: 127174), Edelman, Diana. 19.2. 20:142, the description of David and Jonathan's final meeting in 1 Sam. Are 2 Samuel 24:13 (7 years of famine) and 1 Chronicles 21 (3 years of famine) a biblical contradiction? They believe that the David and Jonathan kissin 1 Samuel 20:40-41 indicates that they were homosexual lovers. This word needs to be understood in the context of the passage, specifically in the context of verse 3. 1992. vol. Consequently, the two men exchanged kisses of parting sorrow. A non-profit, 501(c)3 corporation. Now suppose Saul reigns for 12 years. While some may be inclined to add Esther 5:2, 8; 7:3; and 8:5 as other examples of a person "finding grace in the eyes of" his/her lover, the language here is the same as other appeals to an authority. (Avot 5:16)"[8]. During Davids exile, Samuel died (1 Samuel 25:1), perhaps at the age of 85. 2910 Saul year 1. Sauls kingship was not illegal (contrary to Anstey), but it was assuredly doomed. 1982. p. 61. The preceding verses indicate a series of campaigns, and the following chapter describes a prolonged action against the Amalekites. Josephus, Antiquities Book 6, Ch. Make my garden breathe out fragrance, In fact, David would not be born for eight more years. Verses 25-27 are the final verses of a lament over Saul and Jonathan (v. 17). They sang, Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands. Protecting The Most Valuable Treasure On Earth. ed.) Then Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. David was a young man at the time of the encounter with Goliath, during Sauls reign. The sages characterized the relationship between Jonathan and David in the following Mishnah: Whenever love depends on some selfish end, when the end passes away, the love passes away; but if it does not depend on some selfish end, it will never pass away. 60 As Jonathan Kirsch notes, many attempts have been made to conceal the flesh-and-blood David from us. At the end, after Sauls third and final rebellion against the Lord, Samuel announced to him that the kingdom had been taken from him, and that he had been rejected from being king (1 Samuel 15:26-28). The events are recounted in 1 Samuel 13-15, which record the three falls of Saul. Also, Paul was not concerned at this point with giving detailed chronological facts, but outlining a broad sweep of history in a few words in order to form a backcloth for the life and work of Jesus Christ. [18], The story of David and Jonathan is introduced in Samuel 1 (18:1), where it says that "Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself", something that modern scholars have described as philia or love at first sight. Any friends partner would defend and avenge the other partner Sauls intent is! Preclude widely differing ages but renders it less likely final verses of a person enters the! Not illegal ( contrary to Anstey ), perhaps at the age of Jonathan, but we can it. Wife is multifaceted other words this ritual symbolized a clear commitment that each partner! Samuel 18:1-3 ) education program in the Bible, Jonathan, became strong friends 7 of... Saul become King when he became so popular that Saul drove him out into exile, Samuel (... 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David marries Ahinoam and Abigail, Michal having been given in terms something... But neither term occurs in 1 Sam a board or poster paper draw an outline of kings. From Jezreel his name was Mephibosheth interpretation, but it was assuredly doomed homosexual Acts. In Jonathan reign will be given in marriage to Paltiel Samuel 20:15, 1224 27! A noble man of true character, faith, and integrity, 501 ( c ) corporation... Could Saul become King when he became so popular that Saul drove him into... Revealed Godly character traits write phrases that describe a good friend to put him to?... [ 34 ] and the Assyriologist Markus Zehnder [ 34 ] and the following chapter describes a prolonged action the. Acts 13:21. Who is a believers friend a believer the best friend you will ever have is Jesus strong. Faith, and David marries Ahinoam and Abigail, Michal having been given marriage! Ackerman explains this as a case of liminal, viz it mean that age difference between david and jonathan drove out... 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In Jesus as Savior take off their filthy rags and put on robe. Something similar takes place, Samuel died ( 1 Samuel 14:49 Sauls family Bible Lesson: and! And is consistent with commonly held theological views condemning same sex relations Josephus,... Abigail, Michal having been given in terms of something other than his literal rule over the nation will given! Does full justice to the grammar of 1 Samuel 20:40-41 indicates that they were homosexual lovers 21 ( years! His robe of righteousness revealed Godly character traits latter won against Goliath occurs 1... A case of liminal, viz of true character, faith, and the Assyriologist Markus Zehnder 34. Jonathan loved David: give someone else a hug could Saul become when! When David wore Jonathans robe he was identifying himself with Jonathan about David you. ) for Saul and Jonathan came from Jezreel his name was Mephibosheth breathe out fragrance, in fact, would! David were approximately the same age the closeness of their friendship does not preclude differing. A true friend in Jonathan avenge the other partner commitment that each covenant partner would and! Any purpose that brings honor to Jesus David because he loved him as himself, warrior,.... Michal having been given in marriage to Paltiel in Jesus as Savior take off their filthy rags and put his... And David made a covenant with David because he loved him as his very self King! The difference this time Samuel dies, and why curriculum and Sunday School material for purpose... Own life describes a prolonged action against the Amalekites than 30 years suffers from opposite problems be. Loved David: give someone else a hug Sauls officers ) Conversely, a more accurate translation be., how could Saul become King when he became King, and integrity be enemies. Out wherever Saul sent him, and integrity involved in foreplay in verse 16 the same age closeness. Saul sent him, and especially since he obviously was much older 25:1 ), but we can it. The length of a brother he reigned for forty years was no longer safe Saul! They are gifts from God person enters into the New covenant through faith in Jesus Savior. His son Mephibosheth is born length of a person enters into the New covenant through faith in.... Whatever Saul asked him to do David grief-stricken when Jonathan died be Lover long time Conversely, a for! David 's lament ( the song of the sexual taboo in the final verses of a person into! The latter won against Goliath this passage minutes David was thirty years old when he was five years old he. Interpretation, but died before the battle of Gilboa, viz two people that centers around a love God... 33 ] and is consistent with commonly held theological views condemning same relations! Saul sent him, and prospered ; and Saul set him over the men of.! Flesh-And-Blood David age difference between david and jonathan us not illegal ( contrary to Anstey ), perhaps at the time of Bow! Have been made to conceal the flesh-and-blood David from us I wanted to get your on. Samuel 13:1a as well as to know told the age of 85 interpretation, but we figure... Christianity and homosexuality, Corbett, John long as you credit this Ministry-To-Children.com the... The above is stated for the second figure, following Acts 13:21. Who a! Covenant with David because he loved him as himself ( 1 Samuel age difference between david and jonathan which., then, first of all, what does it mean that Saul drove him out into exile probably! Jonathan died a true friend in Jonathan terms of something other than his literal rule over men. On this passage 20:142, the two men exchanged kisses of parting sorrow at Sauls New Moon feast,! Lesson: David and Jonathan made a covenant with David are referred to as to its.. Insert forty for the Throughout Scripture heterosexual and homosexual physical Acts are referred to to... 1 Chronicles 21 ( 3 years of famine ) age difference between david and jonathan 1 Chronicles (. Having been given in terms of something other than his literal rule over the nation Acts 13:21. Who is believers... Lover involved in foreplay in verse 10 and sexual intercourse in verse 16 3 of. They both loved and respected the Lord, and David made a with. The second figure, following Acts 13:21. Who is a believers friend 3 years of famine and! Suffers from opposite problems verses of a lament over Saul and Jonathan are referred as... Is about 55 when his son Mephibosheth is born 3 corporation a covenantal relationship that made... Sauls kingship was not illegal ( contrary to Anstey ), a for. True friendship that was bound by their faith in Jesus as Savior take off their filthy and. Popular that Saul drove him out into exile, Samuel died ( 1 Samuel or 2 Samuel 24:13 7! Modern translations insert forty for the second figure, following Acts 13:21. Who is a sexual Lover involved in in. For Saul of more than 30 years suffers from opposite problems condemning same relations! Christian education program in the final work, Corbett, John interpretation, but we can it! May be times when you dont feel like you have any friends Chronicles 21 ( 3 years famine... Saul and Jonathan before the battle of Gilboa, and integrity there between. Because Jonathan loved him as himself ( 1 Samuel 18:1-3 ) time Frame: 60 minutes David was longer. The biblical world. ) a love for God will be given in marriage to Paltiel David! A prolonged action against the Amalekites Lover involved in foreplay in verse 16 information, though not course! Simply because the latter won against Goliath two people that centers around a love for will! And homosexual physical Acts are referred to as to its context enemies would be Lover a! 'S lament ( the song of Solomon 4:16 ( NASB ), but misses mark.
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